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2/3 Option
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2/3 Option
Posted by iPeg (VIP) 4 Aug 2020 11:06am     


An option for a 2/3 format has been requested in the past but it has not been implemented yet. Who is in favor of this option? I think it would eliminate some frustration for those who don’t appreciate players who play one game and leave the table.

2/3 Option
Posted by JAFU57 5 Aug 2020 6:29pm     


Agreed. Another option I would see is skunks. Not sure why this isn't included here

2/3 Option
Posted by CrucialFluid (VIP) 5 Aug 2020 11:02pm     


Both good ideas.

Skunks
Posted by gjamies1 6 Aug 2020 10:36am     


Surely a win is a win, does it matter by how much?

If you do decide on 2/3, will the tx matches be per leg or the best out of 3, i.e. 5tx would be best of 3 for the 5 tx not 5tx per leg.

2/3 and skunking
Posted by webmaster (moderator) 6 Aug 2020 10:56am     


We are thinking of eventually implementing cribbage 2/3 matches.

Here's our understanding of the rules - please comment:
---
With a 2/3 option matches (with default single skunking 'on'), a player will score one match point for winning a single (e.g. first) game. Their opponent will start as Dealer in the next game.
If a player skunks their opponent in the 1st game (reaches 121 points before their opponent scores 91 points), that player wins two match points AND, therefore, a full 2/3 match WITHOUT playing any further games.
----

Skunks
Posted by gjamies1 (VIP) 6 Aug 2020 3:48pm     


Unfortunately skunks seem to be a US thing, us Brits don't play this rule, but if we play 5 card 61 points, it's hard to skunk lol

2/3 Option
Posted by iPeg (VIP) 6 Aug 2020 4:48pm     


A skunk should be counted the same as a regular win in a 2/3 series. The loser of each game should be awarded first deal in the next game.

In 2/3 match skunking should either be worth extra points or should be ignored...
Posted by webmaster (moderator) 7 Aug 2020 11:25am     


Please take a look at cribbage match rules/example below.

In 2/3 match skunking should either be worth extra points or should be ignored...

Cribbage Matches - Wikipedia

2/3
Posted by Jamesd2k5 (VIP) 8 Aug 2020 9:22am     


I support the 2/3 option

Running
Posted by Kazim_Kazim (VIP) 10 Aug 2020 4:28pm     


I'm oppose to that rule and I think running should be allowed. It's really poor etiquette when someone runs after 1 game 2, 3, 4 games etc but it's fair game when players hit the start button. You should call runners out if you want because it's a bad habit and doesn't feel good for the loser but that's all you can do. And we've all ran after games btw.

2/3
Posted by 221bBakerSt (VIP) 11 Aug 2020 12:52am     


This has nothing to do with 'runners' thorn jack. The 2/3 option is similar to a playoff in the ACC Consolation Tournament. Skunks are not relevant and the loser deals. (note NOT alternate deal, but loser deals) If you wanted to incorporate skunks, then make it so the player risks losing more than one stake, but 1.5 stakes. For instance: If I am playing for 1 Tix and lose by a skunk, then I lose 1.5 tix to my pone. 5 to 7.50, 10 to 15 etc. This is a similar scoring system to the ACC which a skunk counts for 3 points and a normal win 2 points. The value of a skunk is not double, but 1.5 times the value of the stake. Obviously, both players would have to agree to a skunk setting. Both players would then 'pay' the 1.5 times amount (say 1.5 tix for a 1 tix match), and if it is a normal win, then the .5 tix would be refunded to the losing player. Should be relatively easy to set up that way.

forum topic
Posted by ImDerc (VIP) 13 Aug 2020 1:49pm     


few points
#1: Sometimes only got time for 1 game, so win or lose that's all folks, nothing to do with being afraid & running. Whether only 1 game or a series, think players need to be confident in their ability & not whinge & believe if more games were played result would be any different. Might be, might not.
#2 dont like skunk suggestion, implies someone totally outplayed their opponent, when usually such a result is sheer luck. Can't remember & doubt I have been skunked or skunked anyone through skill, skunks are pretty much due to one player getting much better cards than their opponent. Next game reverse could easily happen.

False accusations of running
Posted by ImDerc (VIP) 13 Aug 2020 2:07pm     


The other day i played <name edited out>, I set table, they joined, i accepted. Before a card was played i typed "hi, gl, only got time 4 1 game before i have to go to bed" as i needed a nap b4 work, which i had to start in 4hrs. He/she didn't respond or abort game b4 it started knowing that, then whinged & quit when score was 110-80 in my advantage. As far as i'm concerned, since i typed that b4 a card was played & he/she continued to play without asking to abort (which i would've if requested) it's just sour grapes that i got better of the cards, doubt if it had been them that won they would've whinged.

Good idea
Posted by Philo78 (VIP) 15 Aug 2020 7:47am     


2/3 with skunks counting as 2 wins. As is right now skunk has no extra meaning.

Still
Posted by 221bBakerSt (VIP) 17 Aug 2020 11:51pm     


Would like to see a skunk option for either tournaments or even direct play. Makes it a little more realistic.

Good Idea
Posted by gjamies1 (VIP) 20 Aug 2020 10:32am     


If you want to play only one game, then fine, but for others I think it's a good idea to play 2/3 or even more. My team game I play in the UK is 7 games, not best of 7 all 7 games are played and the total is handed in to the team captain who adds up all the 8 tables playing, and yes you can get a draw 28-28 and it does happen quite often.

So you are proposing...
Posted by 221bBakerSt (VIP) 25 Aug 2020 10:19pm     


Basically you want to be able to play 7 games against one person? Not sure how you get 28-28 because it must be a UK scoring system, but assuming that you can, how do you determine a winner? Cribbage is one of those games where there is no tie.

Score 28-28
Posted by gjamies1 (VIP) 29 Aug 2020 7:01am     


Each table plays 7 games and there are 8 tables, 8x7 =56 half of that is 28, so in a team game you can get a draw, but each individual player wins or looses.

So
Posted by 221bBakerSt (VIP) 2 Sep 2020 10:59pm     


Are you proposing that we play against tables? or teams? or against multiple players like in a real tournament? or 7 games with 7 players? Not sure what you are saying here. This site does not even allow doubles, so what format were you proposing when you talk about playing more than one game? Or were you just saying that in the UK they play more than one game? Even then in the ACC, the scorecards would be different and there are tie breakers so that there no ties.

2/3
Posted by iPeg (VIP) 8 Oct 2020 9:49pm     


Let’s get back to the original request, Gamecolony should implement a 2/3 option for games, very simple. When can this be done?

2/3 option request - summarized
Posted by webmaster (moderator) 9 Oct 2020 10:06am     


Before I jump into implementing a requested 2/3 option which would require quite a bit of changes to the cribbage server and to each platform/client (html, iOS, Android, possibly old Java):
Based on your previous comments, I'd like to summarize the requested change so that you can further comment or just vote yes/no/etc. :

(1) 2/3 would be a non-default cribbage match option where under normal circumstances (skunk exception - below) a player will need to win twice in order to gain victory (i.e. to get any won Tickets/ranking/rating).

(2) Upon creating a table with the above non-default 2/3 match option, you would also see a non-default 'skunk' option.
With 'skunk' on in a 2/3 option, a victory with skunking would count as 2 won games i.e. full victory in a 2/3 match.

(3) 2/3 option match will start with the score
0 : 0
After the 1st player wings the 1st game in a 2/3 option without skunking, there will be a 'Continue' button and the score will change to 0 : 1 with '1' showing at the side of the player who won the 1st game in a match.
Other possible non-final score: 1 : 1 after which, again, Continue button will be shown and a new 3rd game will start with the last loser as Dealer.

(4) The loser of each game will be awarded first deal in the next game even if that loser had a 1st deal in the previous game.

(5) Any 2/3 matches interrupted in mid-match will be settled proportionately per match winning chances calculated using the existing match score and taking into the account the current game position in the interrupted game.

(6) The above non-default 2/3 match option will be implemented for all free games/Ticket games/Tournaments.

Please comment/vote!

2/3 Logistics
Posted by iPeg (VIP) 9 Oct 2020 2:49pm     


Thanks for the detailed response! I have the following comments on the proposed changes:

(1) Correct, first player to win two games wins the match and the resulting points/tix/rank.

(2) I agree with this as an option, as some players believe a skunk involves too much luck, while others like the idea of a skunk counting more than a simple win. An indicator of whether skunks count as double or not should should be displayed on the table setup (eg capital “S”).

(3) Agree as described

(4) Agree

(5) I would err on the side of the player who did not disconnect regarding awarding the match win. Disconnections are rare and I’ve seen numerous cases where players have disconnected when at a disadvantage, even though the server considers the game a draw. At a minimum, if a player disconnects being down 1-0, they would automatically lose the match. If the match is tied at 0-0 or 1-1 and there is any advantage to the player who doesn’t disconnect, even having first deal for the third game, for example, they should be awarded the match win.

(6) Agree

Thanks!

2/3 option
Posted by hantscricket (VIP) 9 Oct 2020 3:54pm     


to complicated keep things as they are

2/3
Posted by iPeg (VIP) 9 Oct 2020 9:12pm     


Hampshire, too complicated? All it does is add an option that many players would like. If you choose to play only single games, nothing changes.

Agreed on Most
Posted by 221bBakerSt (VIP) 14 Oct 2020 8:01pm     


I agree with Ipeg and webmistress and believe that this would be a wonderful option. I slightly disagree with Ipeg regarding advantage on disconnects, but I do believe that a player down 0-1 or 1-1 with significant disadvantage should be awarded the match. I think if it is 0-0, clearly that is too early in a 3-game match to determine outcome. Similar to a backgammon match at 3 points, if it is 0-0 without a doubling cube, then it should be a draw. Lastly, I would suggest a resign button similar to backgammon. Meaning that if I know that I'm going to get beat and want to resign the one game (or two games), then that should be allowed instead of waiting several minutes (especially with a slow player) to resign and if the other player accepts it, then we can move onto the next game. Obviously, they can refuse the resign (because they might get a skunk), but it could and would speed things up.

does it really matter
Posted by karmacoma3 24 Oct 2020 9:12pm     


plenty of people have gone after beating me 1st game as i have..don't have time to play on sometimes..it's a game..not that important

2/3
Posted by iPeg (VIP) 24 Oct 2020 10:59pm     


Is there an update on this from the webmaster? Will t be implemented?

Re: doesn’t really matter
Posted by iPeg (VIP) 24 Oct 2020 11:01pm     


It’s an option that would make the site more enjoyable for many players. You wouldn’t have to play 2/3 if you choose not to.

2/3 non-default option implementation plans
Posted by webmaster (moderator) 25 Oct 2020 9:57am     


Yes, we now plan to implement a 2/3 cribbage match option per my previous message. My plan is to start working on cribbage game server-related 2/3 option enhancements in 1-2 months and then proceed to changes for all supported clients. Exact implementation date? How about 1 month after this pandemic is over...

After pandemic?
Posted by gjamies1 (VIP) 26 Oct 2020 12:04pm     


Just before Christmas then, just don't know year lol

2/3 option
Posted by gooders2 (VIP) 2 Nov 2020 1:11pm     


why do all you yanks complicate things its 2/3 one down two down all over bye

2/3
Posted by iPeg (VIP) 29 Dec 2020 10:13pm     


Hi, just checking to see if there’s any progress on development of this option. Thanks

2/3 rule
Posted by zabnar 7 Jan 2021 1:50am     


Im for having more options for cribbage. If the server will support it great. Maybe people will stop complaining about "runners" and set up their own 2/3 table. Everyones happy. I like being able to play many different people if I want. One game at a time if i so choose, because I am given that option. A win is still a win even if you leave the table.

2/3
Posted by iPeg (VIP) 29 Jun 2021 10:57pm     


Webmaster, any progress on this or fixing the manual scoring function?

Update
Posted by bennetta (VIP) 10 Jul 2021 10:05pm     


2/3 idea was great option to have, any updates on implementation?

2/3 option
Posted by webmaster (moderator) 12 Jul 2021 11:03am     


We are currently engaged in a full revamping of our desktop multiplayer web games (backgammon/cribbage/gin/dominoes) with the new frameworks to support creating native apps for the following platforms:
* Microsoft Windows * Mac OS * Facebook * Web

Within a month, we plan to free up some of the resources from the above multi-game project & start working on the server's portion of our cribbage 2/3 option.

If anyone is familiar with our backgammon match setups, a 2/3 cribbage option exactly follows the format of a backgammon's 2 point match if no doubling is allowed. 1 point is given for a win of any single game & whoever gets 2 points first wins the match.

Our planned new & improved implementation of the manual scoring option is more resource-intensive & we'll make a decision on it after our 2/3 cribbage option is complete.

Mobile also?
Posted by CrucialFluid (VIP) 18 Jul 2021 2:40am     


Will the 2/3 also be on mobile devices? Thanks for the update! Great to have this coming soon!

2/3 option will be for both desktop and mobile
Posted by webmaster (moderator) 21 Jul 2021 8:06am     


2/3 option will be for both desktop and mobile devices.
After we add 2/3 option support to the cribbage game server , it would take us at least 3 months to add the same support for desktop, iOS and Android mobile devices.

2/3 option will be for both desktop and mobile
Posted by webmaster (moderator) 21 Jul 2021 8:06am     


2/3 option will be for both desktop and mobile devices.
After we add 2/3 option support to the cribbage game server , it would take us at least 3 months to add the same support for desktop, iOS and Android mobile devices.

Thanks
Posted by 221bBakerSt (VIP) 15 Aug 2021 3:23pm     


Thanks for all your hard work on this. It will be a great addition to normal game play AND tournament play!

2/3 Option vs. one game vs. multiple games
Posted by GinFluencer (VIP) 16 Aug 2021 4:20pm     


I think we have a couple different inputs going.. one on the new 2/3 OPTION (awesome!!!) and one on not having time for more than 1 game.

This will be an OPTION -- you don't have to set your table for 2of3 , and you can choose to play just regular. So if you only have time for 1 game.. just play as it currently is set!

But GC Thank you so much for the OPTION to have another format for players who want to commit to the 2of3. Having this option in the Main as well as tourney rooms will be great!!

Re: delay in implementation of a 2/3 option
Posted by webmaster (moderator) 27 Nov 2021 5:32pm     


Unfortunately, we had to delay a 2/3 cribbage option implementation as another much bigger project took priority: modernization of our desktop offerings for 4 main games (cribbage/gin/backgammon/dominoes) for multi-platform availability. Selected players were already asked to betta-test our new backgammon. Within 3 months, we will be asking in this forum to beta-test new cribbage.

2/3 option request
Posted by aussiegirl26 (VIP) 27 Nov 2021 5:58pm     


I agree with the choice of 2/3 games but not the skunking. As said previously must be an USA thing never played it in GB or Australia

Skunk?
Posted by 221bBakerSt (VIP) 29 Nov 2021 7:32pm     


So you play normal cribbage in the UK and Aus without a skunk line? I looked it up and clearly at least in the UK; they use skunks. At least it says so on the UK website. https://www.theukrules.co.uk/rules/children/games/cards/cribbage.html

skunking, not a fan
Posted by ImDerc (VIP) 2 Dec 2021 10:34am     


I've skunked a few players & been skunked just as many times & everyone of those games was just lucky cards; there was very little skill involved.
If anyone is fortunate enough to get dealt cards that enabled them to beat their opponent by over 30pts, congrats, the cribbage gods smiled on you.
But realise it only occurred because you got a far luckier draw of cards than your opponent.
So take your "earnt" easy victory, but don't expect to be credited with the equivalent of winning 2 games just because you got extremely lucky with the cut of the cards.

What about double skunks?
Posted by ImDerc (VIP) 4 Dec 2021 2:54am     


If the website starts rewarding players as if they have won 2 games just because they received luckier cards & won by 30, why stop there?
If they get an extremely lucky draw & win when their opponent doesn't reach 60 (which has happened to every player who has played 10's of thousands of games), why not reward the winner with winning 3 games?
Think the reason that is ridiculous is highlighted by a key words in the link Sherlock's address posted : "Rules/Children/Games".
Hopefully GC has rules in place so children don't play on this site. So let's just leave skunking rules to the children, who may mistakenly believe they totally outplayed their opponent & that is why they won by over 30 or 60pts.
Hopefully the adults realise they just got lucky & their was little skill involved.
Having skunking is just as stupid as having to double your wager if you bet on a horse race & it crosses the line last. Or having to triple your bet if the horse becomes lame & doesn't finish the race.
Leave those stupid rules for children, not adults.

No skunking, then!
Posted by webmaster (moderator) 4 Dec 2021 9:04am     


We are now in agreement with the prevailing argument that any skunking options are just not serious enough and are part of mostly 'home-grown' child-like fun additions that have little to do with serious competitive cribbage.

IMDerc
Posted by 221bBakerSt (VIP) 7 Dec 2021 3:05pm     


ImDerc has clearly not read the official rules of cribbage which is clearly obtainable via THIS website on the ACC link. I was not arguing in favor of or against skunks in the 2/3 format, just pointing out that it is a part of cribbage for...oh around 400 years. It is not part of a 'home-grown' addition any more than the doubling cube in backgammon is. I used a simple UK site, but perhaps I should have used www.cribbage.org/newsite/rules/default for ImDerc's adult version of the rules. After reading, he can take the judge's test. Until passing that test, he could perhaps leave the insults to the game and other players somewhere else.

Skunks
Posted by gjamies1 (VIP) 8 Dec 2021 11:55am     


Bear in mind that it is just not played in the USA but also worldwide. Here in the UK, we just play the game, no skunks points or the extras when you opponent calls the wrong score (muggins?) that of course can only be done on manual scoring game

2/3 Option, no skunk factor
Posted by iPeg (VIP) 9 Dec 2021 10:12am     


Skunks are not counted as two games in short series such as 2/3 or 3/5 in ACC tournament play. This is a distraction from implementing a 2/3 option. A straightforward 2/3 option and even a 3/5 option may be provided.

Skunking is NOT an official rule
Posted by ImDerc (VIP) 9 Dec 2021 11:42am     


Lurching/Skunking is a common optional variation of the rules, but unless both parties agree, games are played under the actual official rules i.e. players are awarded 1 point for each game they win, regardless of the difference in the scores.
It may have been adopted as a version of cribbage played between consenting adults/children/associations for... oh around 400yrs; but it is NOT an official rule.
Official rules are set in stone, skunking is just an additional rule if people choose to implement it.

Skunks
Posted by iPeg (VIP) 9 Dec 2021 12:40pm     


Skunks are part of the official scoring in American Cribbage Congress tournaments as part of qualifying rounds. 2 points are awarded for a normal win and 3 points are awarded for a skunk. Playoff rounds, which are typically best 3/5 matches, do not award additional points for a skunk.

Ipeg is correct
Posted by 221bBakerSt (VIP) 9 Dec 2021 2:25pm     


That is correct Ipeg. You have stated it correctly. Not sure where ImDerc gets his 'official' rules, but would love to have the link or resource, as the extensive rules in the ACC which can be obtained through this very site, are the guiding rules for tournament play. Like I said earlier, I don't particularly think skunks are valuable on GC or in a 2/3 format, but to discount their purpose in cribbage means almost every cribbage board maker in the world has messed up with those silly marks at hole 91. I'm waiting to see a more authoritative written source for cribbage rules than the ACC's. Until then, I will defer to that source. Everyone has their own made up rules that they learned from their grandparents and passed down through generations. Most of those were wrong, not intentionally, but because there was not a definitive source or 'rule book'. We call those 'kitchen rules'. Reputable tournaments are not held using 'kitchen rules', although I have seen those used in tournaments in different countries, or even in bars or pubs in the USA in which cheating is wide-spread and almost expected. The whole purpose of a universal rule book is to level the playing field and eliminate cheating. Skunks are NOT optional in ACC Grass Roots or Tournament play. Muggins is the only optional rule and must be declared prior to play.

221bBakerst
Posted by gjamies1 (VIP) 11 Dec 2021 10:16am     


As said previous, we do not play skunks in the UK and further more we normally only use a 60 hole crib board with our normal game being 5 card 61 hole games. Maybe we should all play that, hard to get skunks in that game

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